The Big Hate
Great new Krugman op-ed complimented below with an O'Reilly video recorded after Dr. Tiller's death. Krugman is really spot on (like usual) in his op-ed and it's nice to see him step up to the conservative media. But to speak in general...prolifers who kill doctors and bomb clinics, I'll really never in my entire life understand it.
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This guy went way too far (which I think most sane people, from either side of the aisle, recognize). Still, though, the abortion rate in this country -- and across the world, for that matter -- is horrific.
--HW
it's not really something that bothers me to be honest.
Tiller's death, or the abortion rate?
--HW
the abortion rate. i'm more concerned for the poor living conditions of millions of living people along with a myriad of other issues to use horrific and abortion rate in the same sentence.
i don't feel like getting into an abortion debate, but it's a mother's individual choice whether to give birth to a child. i can't see it as murder. granted, the more unwanted pregnancies prevented the better and i support gov't aide to poor mothers, and more importantly, a federal paternal leave program.
One million, or even forty million for that matter, is just too much for the human mind to grasp, Therefore the abortion issue lends itself to too much apathy.
The idea that abortion is SOLELY a product of certain economic conditions is statistically not really true (at least in America and other developed nations): at 38%, the greatest number of abortions occur in the 30-59K range; when you factor in that 93% take place for social reasons, abortions (in developed nations) have just as much to do with crumbling social institutions and immorality as economics.
I don't feel like an abortion debate, either; but the most disturbing part about abortion in America, I find, is that devaluing human life -- which, love it or leave it, is a consequence of abortion -- is now considered a tenet of human "progress". That's just backwards logic.
--HW
like i said, i don't see anything wrong with abortion kid because it's a mother's choice and the hardship is between the mother and her potential child...not with society and the government. it's a mother's choice to have a child until quite late in the pregnancy if you ask me.
I just don't get the logic that one million abortions, annually -- 93% of which for social purposes, not health/economic -- has no effect on society at large? It's a historical fact: where life is devalued, rights wither away, are rescinded, or are altogether nonexistent.
--HW
you've never given birth. you will never have to give birth. regardless of what racist dikks like o'shithead claim, women don't just willy nilly get abortions. i know first hand that it can be devestating to a women; sometimes for the rest of their lives...the choice is a women's and a women's only..
If the majority of women don't get abortions willy nilly, then how do you explain the 93% rate in which health and economic factors are EXCLUDED(in developed nations)? Those are, practically speaking, the pegs that abortionists hang their hats on: health and economics (which the stats byb and large contradict).
--HW
cite your sources kid and define "social" reason.
"Social reason" could be not wanting to care for a dependent because the child could interferes with work or school; or it could be that the woman might not want to raise the child without the father.
This is one of the more objective sites I've found -- as we know, however, there is no neutrality on this issue; or even in the larger culture war. But I didn't find pictures of mangled fetuses and so forth; plus the stats seemed pretty fair: http://www.abortionfacts.com/
The general consensus from many of the sites -- and I've looked at quite a few of them -- is that single white women (57% white, 33% black, 10% other) ages 20-24 have the most abortions. Common sense goes a long way on this, so I'll leave the reasoning to you guys.
My point is not that all women are heartless, cold-blooded killers -- we know that's just not true; and besides, men are just as much at fault -- but that abortion made a NORMATIVE ACT -- e.g., "it's not a big deal" -- devalues human life; and therefore undercuts so many of the basic principles that we rely on for all basic rights. Like I've said, where human life isn't valued, rights don't exist -- that might offend some feminist sensibilities, but that's a sociological and historical fact. Besides, if life doesn't begin at conception -- which is a biological fact -- then when does it?
--HW
and as my last comment on this, i'm going to say that i see nothing wrong with a 20-24 year old girl aborting her child because she has other plans for her life.
i don't see men stepping up to the plate and wanting to take responsibility for the child at that age.
and accidents happen.
I agree that abortion can't be pinned on women only; men must be held equally responsible, too. If a man gets a woman pregnant, he better be there till the end. That's how I see it.
But whatever happened to accountability? Raising a child is not easy -- I've got two -- but I just find it contradictory to be a supposed outreached humanitarian for the poor, on the one hand, and pro-abortion for personal convenience on the other. Both issues -- and this is why, say, the Catholics are logically consistent -- boil down to the basic dignity and worth of human life (unless you're sympathy for the poor is a gimmick to fulfill a certain ideological, anti-capitalist end).
I'm sorry to keep harping on this. I just find abortion, as a predominately white, middle-class phenomenon, inexcusable. It's the manifestation of irrationality. If abortion becomes even more normative, don't be surprised if it leads to other unexpected avenues in which human rights are grossly violated; contrary to many of the purveyors of progressive death culture, they're not exclusive.
--HW
i think you misuse the term 'personal convenience.' my girlfriend owns a cell phone for personal convenience, she doesn't abort her baby. i think the actual decision might be a *bit* more complex.
"If abortion becomes even more normative, don't be surprised if it leads to other unexpected avenues in which human rights are grossly violated"
Why is someone this far right even reading our fucking blog?
If it's more complex then explain it using stats, logic, and reason, rather than clinging to your simple, predictable ideology. To imply that valuing life is, for some reason, exclusive to the right -- which you claim I represent -- is just wrong: it's a shared valuation where the American socio-political -- left/right -- spectrum converges. But that's the point.
--HW
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